From coff at tuhs.org Wed Sep 2 12:44:49 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (Clem Cole via COFF) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2026 22:44:49 -0400 Subject: [COFF] [TUHS] Regex archaeology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Will, CCing COFF and SIMH which is really where this question belongs and BCC: TUHS.org On Tue, Sep 1, 2026 at 9:21 PM Will Senn via TUHS wrote: > All, > > I've been doing some experimentation to test my language, aiki, a small > interpreted language. Most of my pressure tests have begun to move > toward emulation because emulating machines is challenging in an > interpreter (can you say sllllloooooowwwww?). Anyhow, when I had the > regex implemented by my outsourced team (claude & chatgpt), I lacked any > comprehension of how it actually worked beyond textbook level (which is > to say, names of things that I didn't truly comprehend). So, I went > looking to primary sources, as I usually do and I came across a sweet > little regex implementation by none other than Ken Thompson, in his well > known article, Regular Expression Search Algorithm, CACM v. 11, No. 6, > June 1968. I found a decent copy and transcribed it so I could use it's > examples more directly. It's a piece of work - an Algol 60 three stage > program that emits IBM 7094 machine code that processes a string and > produces signals. > > What I really appreciate is that the code "works", it's not a fragment, > not partial implementation, but serious work, the core third stage. > Anyhow, I wrote a small 7094 processor (only enough instructions to > execute thompson's search) in aiki, and tried it out and it's glorious > (to me) running the machine code it generates and producing expected > results (as provided in this exceptional article). > > This like all shiny objects took me down a rabbit trail. My language is > interpreted remember? I have been thinking about compilers - didn't > think I wanted one originally, but man slow is so not me, but not just > any implementation. My language is grammar bound, I already have an IR > in the AST output, it's closed and therefore, I can prolly just emit it > or better yet, follow Thompson with a bytecode emit (something for a go > vm, for example). Anyhow, I started wondering, what about algol 60, it's > always popping up in any serious language discussion and that took to > Randell & Russell's 1964 Algol 60 implementation where translation is > discussed, confirming my suspicion on how I might do the compiler for > Aiki and preserve it's exact semantic representation and profiling > capabilities dtrace style. Then I came back to Thompson, and that's > hopefully where y'all come in... Do any of you know what implementation > of algol-60 he might have used on the 7094? BC Algol is out in the wild > and could be right, but I'm really jazzing to implement the search on an > emulated 7094 using an actual algol and preferably the one he was using. > As I understand it, there are at least three: - IBM ALGOL 60 (System Monitor Compiler) for the IBSYS operating system - SHARE ALGOL 60 Translator targeting the IBM 709/7090/7094 hardware and I thought could run on CTSS - ALCOR ALGOL 60 European-American consortium dedicated to standardized ALGOL deployment for the for the 7090/7094 You might ask Ken what he remembers. I haven't read the paper inm a few years, did he say which OS he was using that might help you track it down. Google tells me that ALCOR-Illinois 7090/7094 compiler project has some influence in CTSS. But it also says: *"**While standard ALGOL 60 dialects like ALCOR existed on the hardware, they were not the primary way people wrote algorithmic code on CTSS day-to-day. CTSS users heavily favored two deeply related "ALGOL-cousin" systems. ... MAD (Michigan Algorithm Decoder - ALGOL 58, and compiled unbelievably fast): was one of the most popular high-level languages on CTSS ... AED (Algol Extended for Design): created at MIT, AED was an explicit, major extension of ALGOL 60 designed specifically to run under CTSS."* > I know, on topic? maybe a little stretch for folks only interested in > bandying about in the userland/kernel, but regex and it's implementation > in ed and elsewhere were surely influenced by this exact work. > > Thanks! > > Will > > From coff at tuhs.org Wed Sep 2 22:45:18 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (John P. Linderman via COFF) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2026 08:45:18 -0400 Subject: [COFF] [TUHS] Re: Regex archaeology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Russ Cox has done some great stuff with regular expressions. This is a fine explanation of Ken's approach, and a warning about the dangers of backtracking. -- jpl On Tue, Sep 1, 2026 at 10:45 PM Clem Cole via TUHS wrote: > Will, CCing COFF and SIMH which is really where this question belongs and > BCC: TUHS.org > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2026 at 9:21 PM Will Senn via TUHS wrote: > > > All, > > > > I've been doing some experimentation to test my language, aiki, a small > > interpreted language. Most of my pressure tests have begun to move > > toward emulation because emulating machines is challenging in an > > interpreter (can you say sllllloooooowwwww?). Anyhow, when I had the > > regex implemented by my outsourced team (claude & chatgpt), I lacked any > > comprehension of how it actually worked beyond textbook level (which is > > to say, names of things that I didn't truly comprehend). So, I went > > looking to primary sources, as I usually do and I came across a sweet > > little regex implementation by none other than Ken Thompson, in his well > > known article, Regular Expression Search Algorithm, CACM v. 11, No. 6, > > June 1968. I found a decent copy and transcribed it so I could use it's > > examples more directly. It's a piece of work - an Algol 60 three stage > > program that emits IBM 7094 machine code that processes a string and > > produces signals. > > > > What I really appreciate is that the code "works", it's not a fragment, > > not partial implementation, but serious work, the core third stage. > > Anyhow, I wrote a small 7094 processor (only enough instructions to > > execute thompson's search) in aiki, and tried it out and it's glorious > > (to me) running the machine code it generates and producing expected > > results (as provided in this exceptional article). > > > > This like all shiny objects took me down a rabbit trail. My language is > > interpreted remember? I have been thinking about compilers - didn't > > think I wanted one originally, but man slow is so not me, but not just > > any implementation. My language is grammar bound, I already have an IR > > in the AST output, it's closed and therefore, I can prolly just emit it > > or better yet, follow Thompson with a bytecode emit (something for a go > > vm, for example). Anyhow, I started wondering, what about algol 60, it's > > always popping up in any serious language discussion and that took to > > Randell & Russell's 1964 Algol 60 implementation where translation is > > discussed, confirming my suspicion on how I might do the compiler for > > Aiki and preserve it's exact semantic representation and profiling > > capabilities dtrace style. Then I came back to Thompson, and that's > > hopefully where y'all come in... Do any of you know what implementation > > of algol-60 he might have used on the 7094? BC Algol is out in the wild > > and could be right, but I'm really jazzing to implement the search on an > > emulated 7094 using an actual algol and preferably the one he was using. > > > > As I understand it, there are at least three: > > - IBM ALGOL 60 (System Monitor Compiler) for the IBSYS operating system > - SHARE ALGOL 60 Translator targeting the IBM 709/7090/7094 hardware > and > I thought could run on CTSS > - ALCOR ALGOL 60 European-American consortium dedicated to standardized > ALGOL deployment for the for the 7090/7094 > > You might ask Ken what he remembers. I haven't read the paper inm a > few years, > did he say which OS he was using that might help you track it down. Google > tells me that ALCOR-Illinois 7090/7094 compiler project has some influence > in CTSS. But it also says: > > *"**While standard ALGOL 60 dialects like ALCOR existed on the hardware, > they were not the primary way people wrote algorithmic code on CTSS > day-to-day. CTSS users heavily favored two deeply related "ALGOL-cousin" > systems. ... MAD (Michigan Algorithm Decoder - ALGOL 58, and compiled > unbelievably fast): was one of the most popular high-level languages on > CTSS ... AED (Algol Extended for Design): created at MIT, AED was an > explicit, major extension of ALGOL 60 designed specifically to run under > CTSS."* > > > > I know, on topic? maybe a little stretch for folks only interested in > > bandying about in the userland/kernel, but regex and it's implementation > > in ed and elsewhere were surely influenced by this exact work. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Will > > > > > From coff at tuhs.org Thu Sep 3 01:26:14 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (Nelson H. F. Beebe via COFF) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2026 09:26:14 -0600 Subject: [COFF] [TUHS] Re: Regex archaeology Message-ID: Will Senn asked about ALGOL 60 and regular expressions. Here are some large bibliographic sources in those areas: https://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/algol68.bib https://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/algol-bulletin.bib https://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/string-matching.bib [As usual, change the final ".bib" to ".html" if you like to have live hyperlinks in Web browser.] Russ Cox's fine work on regexp engines is recorded in the latter. Recently, GNU gawk switched from its older regexp engine to a new one with Unicode support, MINRX, written by Mike Haertel. It has been under discussion in the list archives at https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/private/gawk-devel/ and Mike is actively working on tuning it. In my recent test builds at Utah on O(100) physical and virtual machines, the test release, gawk-5.4.1a, has passed all of its tests on a majority of machines, and most of the tests on several others. For the latter, the causes of the test failures are mostly due to peculiarities of those systems, and the regexp tests all pass. I expect that there will be an official gawk release in the next few weeks. Thus, Will can play with both the Cox and Haertel engines for his own work. The Cox engine prevents O(N**2) growth in run times for some unusual, and also unlikely, regular expressions, which is a BIG achievement in string searching. I don't know how the Haertel engine fares in that area. Perhaps other list readers can comment? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of Utah - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe at math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe at acm.org beebe at computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: https://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From coff at tuhs.org Wed Sep 9 09:36:22 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey via COFF) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2026 09:36:22 +1000 Subject: [COFF] Possible Unsubscribe Spam E-mails Message-ID: All, I've had a few TUHS/COFF people e-mail me to say that they have received a "please confirm you want to unsubscribe from this list" e-mail. As far as I'm aware, these e-mails haven't been generated by the Mailman software behind the TUHS & COFF lists. Please assume that they are spammers and delete the e-mails. We will see what, if anything, we can do about them. Thanks, Warren and the TUHS team. From coff at tuhs.org Wed Sep 9 10:24:34 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (Dave Horsfall via COFF) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2026 10:24:34 +1000 Subject: [COFF] Possible Unsubscribe Spam E-mails In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shouldn't be too hard for recipients to check the headers to see whether or not it came from Warren's box; also, your MTA (for those running their own mail servers) can use a variety of anti-spoofing measures (check the docs). And again, if you run your own server then simply block the offending IP (I block the entire CIDR meself) and move on. -- Dave On Wed, 9 Sept 2026 at 09:45, Warren Toomey via COFF wrote: > All, I've had a few TUHS/COFF people e-mail me to say that they have > received a "please confirm you want to unsubscribe from this list" e-mail. > > As far as I'm aware, these e-mails haven't been generated by the > Mailman software behind the TUHS & COFF lists. Please assume that > they are spammers and delete the e-mails. > > We will see what, if anything, we can do about them. > > Thanks, Warren and the TUHS team. > -- Dave Horsfall 13/71-79 Glennie St North Gosford NSW 2250 02 4326 1079 (preferred) 0490 095 371 (SMS only) From coff at tuhs.org Sat Sep 19 15:02:45 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (Tomasz Rola via COFF) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2026 07:02:45 +0200 Subject: [COFF] First use of emoticon... Message-ID: ...was on this day, 44 years ago. As described here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Fahlman -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com ** From coff at tuhs.org Sat Sep 19 19:57:28 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (Cameron Tyre via COFF) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2026 09:57:28 +0000 Subject: [COFF] First use of emoticon... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :-) -------- Original Message -------- On Saturday, 09/19/26 at 06:02 Tomasz Rola via COFF wrote: ...was on this day, 44 years ago. As described here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Fahlman -- Regards, Tomasz Rola From coff at tuhs.org Sun Sep 20 00:21:13 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (Harald Arnesen via COFF) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2026 16:21:13 +0200 Subject: [COFF] First use of emoticon... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <785dc5ea-fc9f-4689-819d-011d3350d26b@skogtun.org> Cameron Tyre via COFF [2026-09-19 11:57:28]: > :-) >> On Saturday, 09/19/26 at 06:02 Tomasz Rola via COFF wrote: >> ...was on this day, 44 years ago. >> >> As described here: >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Fahlman I find nowadays most people (when using ASCII, not graphical emoticons) use :) . I have always used :-) , as I have a nose in my face. -- Hilsen Harald From coff at tuhs.org Sun Sep 20 14:17:57 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (Wesley Parish via COFF) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2026 16:17:57 +1200 Subject: [COFF] First use of emoticon... In-Reply-To: <785dc5ea-fc9f-4689-819d-011d3350d26b@skogtun.org> References: <785dc5ea-fc9f-4689-819d-011d3350d26b@skogtun.org> Message-ID: <04ad165a-186e-4df2-af33-33c4fad575eb@gmail.com> I find myself using :) rather than :-) because after having my nose mentioned an awful lot of times when I was growing up, I'd much rather people remembered my smile than my nose. :) Wesley Parish On 20/09/2026 02:21, Harald Arnesen via COFF wrote: > Cameron Tyre via COFF [2026-09-19 11:57:28]: > >> :-) > >>> On Saturday, 09/19/26 at 06:02 Tomasz Rola via COFF >>> wrote: >>> ...was on this day, 44 years ago. >>> >>> As described here: >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Fahlman > > I find nowadays most people (when using ASCII, not graphical > emoticons) use :) . I have always used :-) , as I have a nose in my face. From coff at tuhs.org Sun Sep 20 20:58:55 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (Brantley Coile via COFF) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2026 10:58:55 +0000 Subject: [COFF] First use of emoticon... In-Reply-To: <04ad165a-186e-4df2-af33-33c4fad575eb@gmail.com> References: <785dc5ea-fc9f-4689-819d-011d3350d26b@skogtun.org> <04ad165a-186e-4df2-af33-33c4fad575eb@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CBDA53D-D42F-4C2D-A1A1-EABF94E0BBAF@coraid.com> And :) doesn't smell....no nose. > On Sep 20, 2026, at 12:17 AM, Wesley Parish via COFF wrote: > > I find myself using :) rather than :-) because after having my nose mentioned an awful lot of times when I was growing up, I'd much rather people remembered my smile than my nose. :) > > Wesley Parish > > On 20/09/2026 02:21, Harald Arnesen via COFF wrote: >> Cameron Tyre via COFF [2026-09-19 11:57:28]: >> >>> :-) >> >>>> On Saturday, 09/19/26 at 06:02 Tomasz Rola via COFF wrote: >>>> ...was on this day, 44 years ago. >>>> >>>> As described here: >>>> >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Fahlman >> >> I find nowadays most people (when using ASCII, not graphical emoticons) use :) . I have always used :-) , as I have a nose in my face. From coff at tuhs.org Mon Sep 21 13:10:20 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (Wesley Parish via COFF) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2026 15:10:20 +1200 Subject: [COFF] First use of emoticon... In-Reply-To: <8CBDA53D-D42F-4C2D-A1A1-EABF94E0BBAF@coraid.com> References: <785dc5ea-fc9f-4689-819d-011d3350d26b@skogtun.org> <04ad165a-186e-4df2-af33-33c4fad575eb@gmail.com> <8CBDA53D-D42F-4C2D-A1A1-EABF94E0BBAF@coraid.com> Message-ID: <6f53c88a-3f6b-4ac1-aee5-b2b3dca0ee4f@gmail.com> "A nose by any other name would smell as sweet" - what Shakespeare didn't write ... On 20/09/2026 22:58, Brantley Coile wrote: > And :) doesn't smell....no nose. > >> On Sep 20, 2026, at 12:17 AM, Wesley Parish via COFF wrote: >> >> I find myself using :) rather than :-) because after having my nose mentioned an awful lot of times when I was growing up, I'd much rather people remembered my smile than my nose. :) >> >> Wesley Parish >> >> On 20/09/2026 02:21, Harald Arnesen via COFF wrote: >>> Cameron Tyre via COFF [2026-09-19 11:57:28]: >>> >>>> :-) >>>>> On Saturday, 09/19/26 at 06:02 Tomasz Rola via COFF wrote: >>>>> ...was on this day, 44 years ago. >>>>> >>>>> As described here: >>>>> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Fahlman >>> I find nowadays most people (when using ASCII, not graphical emoticons) use :) . I have always used :-) , as I have a nose in my face. From coff at tuhs.org Mon Sep 21 13:11:41 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (Greg 'groggy' Lehey via COFF) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2026 13:11:41 +1000 Subject: [COFF] First use of emoticon... In-Reply-To: <6f53c88a-3f6b-4ac1-aee5-b2b3dca0ee4f@gmail.com> References: <785dc5ea-fc9f-4689-819d-011d3350d26b@skogtun.org> <04ad165a-186e-4df2-af33-33c4fad575eb@gmail.com> <8CBDA53D-D42F-4C2D-A1A1-EABF94E0BBAF@coraid.com> <6f53c88a-3f6b-4ac1-aee5-b2b3dca0ee4f@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Monday, 21 September 2026 at 15:10:20 +1200, Wesley Parish via COFF wrote: > "A nose by any other name would smell as sweet" - what Shakespeare didn't > write ... Of course, now you're raising our curiosity. Photo? Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available URL: From coff at tuhs.org Wed Sep 23 09:33:02 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (segaloco via COFF) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2026 23:33:02 +0000 Subject: [COFF] Seeking Early Ti Solid Circuit Data Message-ID: <65gRYh7QuUoXZ5vjagAewF3W4m9z1a0ywhOswYiePNMlGmZU3Inehp2APkOzjtkzOKSpFFKARXHMVi2dFQN2zQhPrCu3zLVdvXT0B7v_ZYE=@protonmail.com> Hi folks, I was wondering if anyone might have any Texas Instruments datasheets/databooks for the SN54/SN74 line from 1964 or 1965 specifically. The earliest sheets I've been able to locate are from November 1965 and are found in a seminar book on the 54/74 line. After that they then show up in the 67-68 Integrated Circuits Catalog. There is a 1966 Perpetual Data Book I snagged but it specifically omits these items with the note: > Before discarding your old looseleaf PDB (Perpetual Data Book), you may want to remove > and retain the first section, SOLID CIRCUIT semiconductor networks > data sheets. These are the only current data sheets not contained in the new > book. They will replaced by a separate Tightleaf PDB, available through > your TI sales engineer in mid-1966. Additionally, this older PDB is mentioned in a replacement note: > This catalog supersedes TI's big (five inches thick) red (with yellow printing) Perpetual Data Book. Unfortunately I can't find any info online about this earlier databook, although I imagine it is similar to RCAs data book binders at the time which indeed were multi-inch-thick red binders with debossed gold lettering. Would anyone happen to have loose-leaf 54/74 datasheets from this timeframe and/or this earlier Perpetual Data Book? One of my goals is mapping out the early data publications and general release timelines of various iconic TTL circuits. Thanks for any help! - Matt G. From coff at tuhs.org Fri Sep 25 13:20:32 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (Tim Shoppa via COFF) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2026 03:20:32 -0000 Subject: [COFF] [simh] [TUHS] Regex archaeology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You mention MAD which is great! I actually got to use MAD a few times in the 1980s in a moonlighting job where i was further extending a special purpose RUNOFF variant that drove Calcomp plotters to make transparency decks for a geology department. I specifically extended it to talk to HP pen plotters and added a preview for Tek4014. I had a lot of fun, much more fun than anything else I ever did on the university’s IBM mainframes. Even today the favorite part of my job is hacking code that generates SVG. Tim N3QE Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: simh at groups.io on behalf of Clement T Cole via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, 01 September 2026 22:44:49 To: Will Senn Cc: Computer Old Farts Followers ; simh at groups.io Subject: Re: [simh] [TUHS] Regex archaeology Will, CCing COFF and SIMH which is really where this question belongs and BCC: TUHS.org On Tue, Sep 1, 2026 at 9:21 PM Will Senn via TUHS > wrote: All, I've been doing some experimentation to test my language, aiki, a small interpreted language. Most of my pressure tests have begun to move toward emulation because emulating machines is challenging in an interpreter (can you say sllllloooooowwwww?). Anyhow, when I had the regex implemented by my outsourced team (claude & chatgpt), I lacked any comprehension of how it actually worked beyond textbook level (which is to say, names of things that I didn't truly comprehend). So, I went looking to primary sources, as I usually do and I came across a sweet little regex implementation by none other than Ken Thompson, in his well known article, Regular Expression Search Algorithm, CACM v. 11, No. 6, June 1968. I found a decent copy and transcribed it so I could use it's examples more directly. It's a piece of work - an Algol 60 three stage program that emits IBM 7094 machine code that processes a string and produces signals. What I really appreciate is that the code "works", it's not a fragment, not partial implementation, but serious work, the core third stage. Anyhow, I wrote a small 7094 processor (only enough instructions to execute thompson's search) in aiki, and tried it out and it's glorious (to me) running the machine code it generates and producing expected results (as provided in this exceptional article). This like all shiny objects took me down a rabbit trail. My language is interpreted remember? I have been thinking about compilers - didn't think I wanted one originally, but man slow is so not me, but not just any implementation. My language is grammar bound, I already have an IR in the AST output, it's closed and therefore, I can prolly just emit it or better yet, follow Thompson with a bytecode emit (something for a go vm, for example). Anyhow, I started wondering, what about algol 60, it's always popping up in any serious language discussion and that took to Randell & Russell's 1964 Algol 60 implementation where translation is discussed, confirming my suspicion on how I might do the compiler for Aiki and preserve it's exact semantic representation and profiling capabilities dtrace style. Then I came back to Thompson, and that's hopefully where y'all come in... Do any of you know what implementation of algol-60 he might have used on the 7094? BC Algol is out in the wild and could be right, but I'm really jazzing to implement the search on an emulated 7094 using an actual algol and preferably the one he was using. As I understand it, there are at least three: * IBM ALGOL 60 (System Monitor Compiler) for the IBSYS operating system * SHARE ALGOL 60 Translator targeting the IBM 709/7090/7094 hardware and I thought could run on CTSS * ALCOR ALGOL 60 European-American consortium dedicated to standardized ALGOL deployment for the for the 7090/7094 You might ask Ken what he remembers. I haven't read the paper inm a few years, did he say which OS he was using that might help you track it down. Google tells me that ALCOR-Illinois 7090/7094 compiler project has some influence in CTSS. But it also says: "While standard ALGOL 60 dialects like ALCOR existed on the hardware, they were not the primary way people wrote algorithmic code on CTSS day-to-day. CTSS users heavily favored two deeply related "ALGOL-cousin" systems. ... MAD (Michigan Algorithm Decoder - ALGOL 58, and compiled unbelievably fast): was one of the most popular high-level languages on CTSS ... AED (Algol Extended for Design): created at MIT, AED was an explicit, major extension of ALGOL 60 designed specifically to run under CTSS." I know, on topic? maybe a little stretch for folks only interested in bandying about in the userland/kernel, but regex and it's implementation in ed and elsewhere were surely influenced by this exact work. Thanks! Will _._,_._,_ ________________________________ Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#7078) | Reply to Group | Reply to Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [tshoppa at gmail.com] _._,_._,_ From coff at tuhs.org Fri Sep 25 13:20:33 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (Eve Quinn via COFF) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2026 03:20:33 -0000 Subject: [COFF] [simh] [TUHS] Regex archaeology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Will, I dug into this because I think there may be one premise worth separating. Thompson's 1968 CACM paper says, "A working example of the third stage of the compiler" is written in ALGOL-60 and produces IBM 7094 machine language. That establishes the language of the published working example, but it does not identify an ALGOL implementation. Dennis Ritchie's history of QED gives a different and useful fact about the program itself: Thompson's CTSS QED was written in IBM 7090 assembly language and compiled its regular expressions to machine code on the fly. The patent version is interesting too. It describes the 7094 implementation using FAP routines, then introduces the ALGOL 60 compiler as "one such automatic test generating facility" being illustrated. That makes me wary of assuming that the CACM listing necessarily points to a particular historically-used ALGOL compiler. Russ Cox also notes that he inspected an actual copy of Thompson's QED in the CTSS sources. In his later references he identifies it in the source-listing archive as `com5`, marked `0QED`. That seems like a particularly good primary-source trail to follow. So I don't think the evidence I've found yet chooses IBM ALGOL vs. SHARE ALGOL vs. ALCOR. It may instead be useful to split the question in two: 1. What did Thompson's actual CTSS QED use? The surviving evidence points to assembly/FAP and on-the-fly 7090/7094 machine-code generation. 2. What ALGOL 60 implementation will accept and run the *published* third-stage example faithfully? That remains a very interesting emulation question, but it may not have the same answer as the first one. If the goal is to recreate what Thompson actually ran, I'd start with `0QED` in the CTSS source and work outward from there. Sources I used: Ken Thompson, "Regular Expression Search Algorithm," CACM 11(6), June 1968: https://doi.org/10.1145/363347.363387 Dennis Ritchie, "An incomplete history of the QED Text Editor": https://www.nokia.com/bell-labs/about/dennis-m-ritchie/qed.html Ken Thompson, US Patent 3,568,156, "Text Matching Algorithm": https://patents.google.com/patent/US3568156A/en Russ Cox, "Implementing Regular Expressions": https://swtch.com/~rsc/talks/regexp.pdf MIT CSAIL CTSS documents and source-program archive notes: https://www.csail.mit.edu/ctss-documents Eve Quinn On Wed, 2 Sep 2026 03:56:37 +0000, "Tim Shoppa via groups.io" wrote: > You mention MAD which is great! > > I actually got to use MAD a few times in the 1980s in a moonlighting job where i was further extending a special purpose RUNOFF variant that drove Calcomp plotters to make transparency decks for a geology department. I specifically extended it to talk to HP > pen plotters and added a preview for Tek4014. I had a lot of fun, much more fun than anything else I ever did on the university’s IBM mainframes. > > Even today the favorite part of my job is hacking code that generates SVG. > > Tim N3QE > > Get [Outlook for iOS](https://aka.ms/o0ukef) > > From: simh at groups.io on behalf of Clement T Cole via groups.io > > Sent: Tuesday, 01 September 2026 22:44:49 > > To: Will Senn > > Cc: Computer Old Farts Followers ; simh at groups.io > > Subject: Re: [simh] [TUHS] Regex archaeology > > Will, CCing COFF and > SIMH which is really where this question > belongs and > BCC: TUHS.org > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2026 at 9:21 PM Will Senn via TUHS wrote: > > All, > > I've been doing some experimentation to test my language, aiki, a small > > interpreted language. Most of my pressure tests have begun to move > > toward emulation because emulating machines is challenging in an > > interpreter (can you say sllllloooooowwwww?). Anyhow, when I had the > > regex implemented by my outsourced team (claude & chatgpt), I lacked any > > comprehension of how it actually worked beyond textbook level (which is > > to say, names of things that I didn't truly comprehend). So, I went > > looking to primary sources, as I usually do and I came across a sweet > > little regex implementation by none other than Ken Thompson, in his well > > known article, Regular Expression Search Algorithm, CACM v. 11, No. 6, > > June 1968. I found a decent copy and transcribed it so I could use it's > > examples more directly. It's a piece of work - an Algol 60 three stage > > program that emits IBM 7094 machine code that processes a string and > > produces signals. > > What I really appreciate is that the code "works", it's not a fragment, > > not partial implementation, but serious work, the core third stage. > > Anyhow, I wrote a small 7094 processor (only enough instructions to > > execute thompson's search) in aiki, and tried it out and it's glorious > > (to me) running the machine code it generates and producing expected > > results (as provided in this exceptional article). > > This like all shiny objects took me down a rabbit trail. My language is > > interpreted remember? I have been thinking about compilers - didn't > > think I wanted one originally, but man slow is so not me, but not just > > any implementation. My language is grammar bound, I already have an IR > > in the AST output, it's closed and therefore, I can prolly just emit it > > or better yet, follow Thompson with a bytecode emit (something for a go > > vm, for example). Anyhow, I started wondering, what about algol 60, it's > > always popping up in any serious language discussion and that took to > > Randell & Russell's 1964 Algol 60 implementation where translation is > > discussed, confirming my suspicion on how I might do the compiler for > > Aiki and preserve it's exact semantic representation and profiling > > capabilities dtrace style. Then I came back to Thompson, and that's > > hopefully where y'all come in... Do any of you know what implementation > > of algol-60 he might have used on the 7094? BC Algol is out in the wild > > and could be right, but I'm really jazzing to implement the search on an > > emulated 7094 using an actual algol and preferably the one he was using. > > As I understand it, there are at least three: > > - IBM ALGOL 60 (System Monitor Compiler) for the IBSYS operating system > > - SHARE ALGOL 60 Translator targeting the IBM 709/7090/7094 hardware and I thought could run on CTSS > > - ALCOR ALGOL 60 European-American consortium dedicated to standardized ALGOL deployment for the for the 7090/7094 > > You might ask Ken what he remembers. I haven't read the paper > inm a few > years, did he say which OS he was using that might help you track it down. Google tells me that ALCOR-Illinois > 7090/7094 compiler project has some influence in CTSS. But it also says: > > "While standard ALGOL 60 dialects like ALCOR existed on the hardware, they were not the primary > way people wrote algorithmic code on > CTSS day-to-day. CTSS users heavily favored two deeply related "ALGOL-cousin" systems. ... MAD > (Michigan Algorithm Decoder - ALGOL 58, > and compiled unbelievably > fast): was one of the most popular high-level languages on > CTSS ... AED (Algol Extended for Design): created at MIT, AED > was an explicit, major extension of ALGOL 60 designed specifically to run under CTSS." > > I know, on topic? maybe a little stretch for folks only interested in > > bandying about in the userland/kernel, but regex and it's implementation > > in ed and elsewhere were surely influenced by this exact work. > > Thanks! > > Will > > _._,_._,_ > > Groups.io Links: > > You receive all messages sent to this group. > > [View/Reply Online (#7079)](https://groups.io/g/simh/message/7079) | > > [Reply to Group](mailto:simh at groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bsimh%5D%20%5BTUHS%5D%20Regex%20archaeology) > > | [Reply to Sender](mailto:tshoppa at gmail.com?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bsimh%5D%20%5BTUHS%5D%20Regex%20archaeology) > > | > > [Mute This Topic](https://groups.io/mt/121045633/10603048) > > | [New Topic](https://groups.io/g/simh/post) > > [Your Subscription](https://groups.io/g/simh/editsub/10603048) | > [Contact Group Owner](mailto:simh+owner at groups.io) | > > [Unsubscribe](https://groups.io/g/simh/leave/15381612/10603048/486521163/xyzzy) > > [littlemousequinn at gmail.com] > > _._,_._,_ From coff at tuhs.org Fri Sep 25 13:35:11 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (Greg 'groggy' Lehey via COFF) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2026 13:35:11 +1000 Subject: [COFF] Regex archaeology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wednesday, 2 September 2026 at 3:56:37 +0000, Tim Shoppa via COFF wrote: > You mention MAD which is great! People, this thread is 3 weeks old, but the message got stuck in hold for COFF because Time and Eve (next message) aren't members. And it took me until now to find out. Sorry. What should we do about it? Our current rules are that non-Unix posts, like this one, should go to COFF, so that was correct. But it seems to me that we should allow TUHS members to post to COFF. Does anybody know how to do this with Postorius? Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 195 bytes Desc: not available URL: From coff at tuhs.org Fri Sep 25 15:50:36 2026 From: coff at tuhs.org (segaloco via COFF) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2026 05:50:36 +0000 Subject: [COFF] [simh] [TUHS] Regex archaeology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thursday, September 24th, 2026 at 20:20, Eve Quinn via COFF wrote: > The patent version is interesting too. It describes the 7094 > implementation using FAP routines, then introduces the ALGOL 60 > compiler as "one such automatic test generating facility" being > illustrated. That makes me wary of assuming that the CACM listing > necessarily points to a particular historically-used ALGOL compiler. Drawing a few things together, was Ken doing this work while at Bell Labs? That may offer some breadcrumbs, as the standard 709x OS inside AT&T at the time was BE-SYS. I actually managed to source a BE-SYS-3 manual sans the introduction section. Unfortunately no ALGOL mentions I can find, just FAP and FORTRAN itself. Granted, this manual is from 1960, so BTL may have adopted a particular ALGOL-60 compiler in later issues of BE-SYS. Granted this is all speculation predicated on whether Ken would have been using a 709x running BE-SYS specifically or some other system (e.g. SHARE, IBSYS) at an institution. - Matt G.